Conversation
Have set up my laptop to do book dev in OS X. Feels like a bit of a moment (yes yes the irony of writing a book about linux on OS X does not escape me)
I wanted to use you as my primary OS on here #asahi, I really did, but it just wasn't meant to be.
You'll still get a look in when I need to do kernel dev and the like out and about. You have your partition. But for the most part, it'll be mac os.
I wanted to use you as my primary OS on here #asahi, I really did, but it just wasn't meant to be.
You'll still get a look in when I need to do kernel dev and the like out and about. You have your partition. But for the most part, it'll be mac os.
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@jubjum A key practical one is that I make music on OS X and life is easier not having to reboot.
But another ongoing one is the lack of speaker support + any hope that it might ever come in usable form for m2 macs.
I also have concerns about future stability for reasons that should be pretty obvious.
I appreciate the asahi project and the efforts made by the contributors and I feel no entitlement, this isn't an attack on anyone, but I do have to make practical choices.
EDIT: The 'any hope' was a rhetorical flourish borne of 'ok I've given up hoping' feelings and not an official statement from the incredible seat of authority of a hobbyist occasional kernel hacker.
But another ongoing one is the lack of speaker support + any hope that it might ever come in usable form for m2 macs.
I also have concerns about future stability for reasons that should be pretty obvious.
I appreciate the asahi project and the efforts made by the contributors and I feel no entitlement, this isn't an attack on anyone, but I do have to make practical choices.
EDIT: The 'any hope' was a rhetorical flourish borne of 'ok I've given up hoping' feelings and not an official statement from the incredible seat of authority of a hobbyist occasional kernel hacker.
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@michelin @jubjum @AsahiLinux
Please re-read what I wrote if you're going to tag asahi in for presumably drama purposes?
'But another ongoing one is the lack of speaker support'
SPEAKER support.
EDIT: To be clear, m2 works well, the power support has come leaps and bounds. It is highly functional apart from the speaker really (well maybe some DP stuff too but I've not tried that).
Speaker support requires an impulse to be obtained for the speakers and applied, there is a 3rd party library for this but it targets m1 only. This is done by people who own m1's and went to the efforts of doing so, I think it's unlikely anybody will with m2 any time soon, practically speaking.
The speaker safety concern much documented doesn't seem to have had much movement on it which is fine there are other priorities, but even were that addressed quickly the above would need to be done too.
So personally I'd be surprised if workable m2 speaker support was present for another couple years tbh.
Again this is not an attack on anybody...
EDIT: I stand corrected, the repo in question is part of the core project but in a personal repo purposefully to avoid people breaking their speakers. The lack of apparent interest in M2 was a misapprehension, uncertain when it'll get done but probably sooner than 2yrs. Within the year seems likely.
Please re-read what I wrote if you're going to tag asahi in for presumably drama purposes?
'But another ongoing one is the lack of speaker support'
SPEAKER support.
EDIT: To be clear, m2 works well, the power support has come leaps and bounds. It is highly functional apart from the speaker really (well maybe some DP stuff too but I've not tried that).
Speaker support requires an impulse to be obtained for the speakers and applied, there is a 3rd party library for this but it targets m1 only. This is done by people who own m1's and went to the efforts of doing so, I think it's unlikely anybody will with m2 any time soon, practically speaking.
The speaker safety concern much documented doesn't seem to have had much movement on it which is fine there are other priorities, but even were that addressed quickly the above would need to be done too.
So personally I'd be surprised if workable m2 speaker support was present for another couple years tbh.
Again this is not an attack on anybody...
EDIT: I stand corrected, the repo in question is part of the core project but in a personal repo purposefully to avoid people breaking their speakers. The lack of apparent interest in M2 was a misapprehension, uncertain when it'll get done but probably sooner than 2yrs. Within the year seems likely.
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@marcan @michelin @jubjum @AsahiLinux @chadmed
The issue isn't speaker support per se, it's the impulse. asahi-audio appears to be an enthusiast thing aimed at m1 only by enthusiasts for their own devices.
The speaker stuff hasn't been touched for a year or so, and nobody seems interested in the impulses, therefore I find it hard to believe it'll be touched any time soon.
I mean happy days if it is, this is just my opinion, and it's not a criticism either.
I wish I'd not said anythign at all or just made this followers-only honestly.
The issue isn't speaker support per se, it's the impulse. asahi-audio appears to be an enthusiast thing aimed at m1 only by enthusiasts for their own devices.
The speaker stuff hasn't been touched for a year or so, and nobody seems interested in the impulses, therefore I find it hard to believe it'll be touched any time soon.
I mean happy days if it is, this is just my opinion, and it's not a criticism either.
I wish I'd not said anythign at all or just made this followers-only honestly.
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@marcan @michelin @jubjum @AsahiLinux @chadmed
Well I'm glad to hear that. The asahi-audio repo is in a person's personal account, and for whatever reason at the time I assumed it was unrelated, or enthusiast, or lower priority thing of somebody in team perhaps. I'm pretty sure somebody linked me on irc or similar suggesting that.
From my perspective there's no way of getting m2 audio to work and there's been apparently no movement on that for a year or so, but at least some m1 laptops were working a ~year ago, hence why I thought there wasn't much movement.
I had assumed limiting factor was impulse based on physical location + number of speakers, I got speakers working a while ago with all the warnings but obviously without impulse not very useful.
Well I'm glad to hear that. The asahi-audio repo is in a person's personal account, and for whatever reason at the time I assumed it was unrelated, or enthusiast, or lower priority thing of somebody in team perhaps. I'm pretty sure somebody linked me on irc or similar suggesting that.
From my perspective there's no way of getting m2 audio to work and there's been apparently no movement on that for a year or so, but at least some m1 laptops were working a ~year ago, hence why I thought there wasn't much movement.
I had assumed limiting factor was impulse based on physical location + number of speakers, I got speakers working a while ago with all the warnings but obviously without impulse not very useful.
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@marcan @michelin @jubjum @AsahiLinux @chadmed
That was not what the 'chill out' was in reference to...
It's the default super-defensive talking down that I'm referring to.
I've gone to pains to point out that I'm NOT attacking nor criticising asahi here.
If something is hard to know ('follow IRC conversations'...), you are clearly busy with other priorities ('have my hands full'), then there's no need to talk down to me as if I should have known that this would be dealt with sooner.
It's quite reasonable to assume, as I did, that maybe this won't get done soon.
But great, glad to stand corrected.
Also I would suggest 'follow IRC conversations' indicates you guys should, probably, just advice, don't bite my head off, probably find a way of documenting things better.
That was not what the 'chill out' was in reference to...
It's the default super-defensive talking down that I'm referring to.
I've gone to pains to point out that I'm NOT attacking nor criticising asahi here.
If something is hard to know ('follow IRC conversations'...), you are clearly busy with other priorities ('have my hands full'), then there's no need to talk down to me as if I should have known that this would be dealt with sooner.
It's quite reasonable to assume, as I did, that maybe this won't get done soon.
But great, glad to stand corrected.
Also I would suggest 'follow IRC conversations' indicates you guys should, probably, just advice, don't bite my head off, probably find a way of documenting things better.
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@chadmed @michelin @jubjum @AsahiLinux @marcan
Yes what would I know about juggling a full time job and a huge personal project ;)
Just to say this AGAIN. This isn't an attack. It was never intended to be an attack. I appreciate your efforts, thank you.
However...
I get the obfuscation to avoid people doing stupid things, I was called stupid on your irc channel when I raised this some time ago, and I have you guys jumping down my throat here, I get how your culture and approach is.
The TL; DR is that you guys claim this feature is likely to come soon, but also that I'm stupid for not having realised that despite there being no reasonable means for me to do so.
I mean I am glad that I seem to be mistaken, brilliant, it's awesome and your work is much appreciated.
But also you can understand why I would think that.
I know you guys seem seriously uninterested in feedback but another suggestion is maybe don't be this defensive all the time. People's general impression of asahi, even on the cesspit awful pile of crap that is HN is one of worship and admiration. You guys have nothing to be defensive about.
Anyway this thread was never intended to be this, random dude decided to tag you guys for maybe drama purposes maybe not. Enjoy your weekend...
Yes what would I know about juggling a full time job and a huge personal project ;)
Just to say this AGAIN. This isn't an attack. It was never intended to be an attack. I appreciate your efforts, thank you.
However...
I get the obfuscation to avoid people doing stupid things, I was called stupid on your irc channel when I raised this some time ago, and I have you guys jumping down my throat here, I get how your culture and approach is.
The TL; DR is that you guys claim this feature is likely to come soon, but also that I'm stupid for not having realised that despite there being no reasonable means for me to do so.
I mean I am glad that I seem to be mistaken, brilliant, it's awesome and your work is much appreciated.
But also you can understand why I would think that.
I know you guys seem seriously uninterested in feedback but another suggestion is maybe don't be this defensive all the time. People's general impression of asahi, even on the cesspit awful pile of crap that is HN is one of worship and admiration. You guys have nothing to be defensive about.
Anyway this thread was never intended to be this, random dude decided to tag you guys for maybe drama purposes maybe not. Enjoy your weekend...
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@marcan @michelin @jubjum @AsahiLinux @chadmed projection much?
>You literally opened the thread saying "it wasn't meant to be"
OK well I guess we ignore that, let's just ignore your attacks that make no sense...
I said that I felt there was no hope because it seemed there was no development. I have said repeatedly (ignored by you) that I felt it was due to deprioritisation.
It was a PERSONAL POST based on my feeling, experience and sense of things based on what I could perceive reasonably. As soon as you guys corrected me in a typically hyper defensive and condescending way I corrected that.
Not every statement made on social media is a legally binding document, and the sense that m2 speaker impulses weren't a priority (you and James have both said you're super busy) informed that pessimistic one.
The issue you have is to treat everybody as attacking the project in some profoundly damaging way, even when they're not. I think your hyper defensiveness harms the project. Profoundly.
You're imagining I, from a position of authority, claim that you cant' achieve X, Y or Z, whereas in reality I believe you and the team can achieve every single aim, I just think you will prioritise things according to what people want to work on like every other OSS project, and it felt this particular item was low on the list.
It wasn't even a bloody attack...
I get that there are some very shit people who have behaved appallingly (HN included), but don't assume EVERYBODY is like that.
>You literally opened the thread saying "it wasn't meant to be"
OK well I guess we ignore that, let's just ignore your attacks that make no sense...
I said that I felt there was no hope because it seemed there was no development. I have said repeatedly (ignored by you) that I felt it was due to deprioritisation.
It was a PERSONAL POST based on my feeling, experience and sense of things based on what I could perceive reasonably. As soon as you guys corrected me in a typically hyper defensive and condescending way I corrected that.
Not every statement made on social media is a legally binding document, and the sense that m2 speaker impulses weren't a priority (you and James have both said you're super busy) informed that pessimistic one.
The issue you have is to treat everybody as attacking the project in some profoundly damaging way, even when they're not. I think your hyper defensiveness harms the project. Profoundly.
You're imagining I, from a position of authority, claim that you cant' achieve X, Y or Z, whereas in reality I believe you and the team can achieve every single aim, I just think you will prioritise things according to what people want to work on like every other OSS project, and it felt this particular item was low on the list.
It wasn't even a bloody attack...
I get that there are some very shit people who have behaved appallingly (HN included), but don't assume EVERYBODY is like that.
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ANYWAY, I've added edits to the posts in question that were doing presumably indelible harm to the project.
I would suggest a famous hacker rabidly attacking a, let's face it, nobody in a drive by commentary is a somewhat worse look than said nobody being pessimistic about an OSS project prioritising something but I guess we each have our own moral guidelines.
I may just put the whole conversation/people in it on block/mute now because I'm profoundly tired of the topic. I wish you well in the project, no attack was actually intended, and I will endeavour never to mention asahi ever again, so I guess you win?
I would suggest a famous hacker rabidly attacking a, let's face it, nobody in a drive by commentary is a somewhat worse look than said nobody being pessimistic about an OSS project prioritising something but I guess we each have our own moral guidelines.
I may just put the whole conversation/people in it on block/mute now because I'm profoundly tired of the topic. I wish you well in the project, no attack was actually intended, and I will endeavour never to mention asahi ever again, so I guess you win?
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