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@aja @RL_Dane @jbowen I hate to do a drive by comment that seems critical but I have to say I have always HATED that article. Graham has a tendency to be 50% very insightful and 50% profoundly wrong.
Note that more or less NONE of the y-com startups use lisp, and if the claims in that article are true about development speed yada yada you'd think he'd be interested in that...
I'ts more like, he likes lisp, he used it, he assumed some things, he wrote about those things.
This is sort of an aside from the language conversation and more a 'PG is not a reliable narrator' comment :) lisp is very cool, rust seems very cool. But yeah, that article, not a fan.
Note that more or less NONE of the y-com startups use lisp, and if the claims in that article are true about development speed yada yada you'd think he'd be interested in that...
I'ts more like, he likes lisp, he used it, he assumed some things, he wrote about those things.
This is sort of an aside from the language conversation and more a 'PG is not a reliable narrator' comment :) lisp is very cool, rust seems very cool. But yeah, that article, not a fan.
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@jbowen @RL_Dane @aja don't get me wrong, I think lisp has a lot of interesting properties, but also a LOT of this stuff has been noticed by other programming languages and features like first-class/higher level functions, powerful macro systems, etc. have been ported.
Of course you can't match the code as data/data as code levels of lisp given its structure but it also has downsides.
But still a highly admirable language, just not the magical be-all and end-all of programming.
The wise person realises that there is no such language.
And as for the rust fanboyisms, and I speak as somebody who, from the outside in, admires the aims and apparent successes of the language and wants to learn (when there is time...), it just strikes me as absolutely typical new language hype. I saw it with go and even js, yes js, with node's emergence, and python and for a while ruby... just part of the life cycle :)
Of course you can't match the code as data/data as code levels of lisp given its structure but it also has downsides.
But still a highly admirable language, just not the magical be-all and end-all of programming.
The wise person realises that there is no such language.
And as for the rust fanboyisms, and I speak as somebody who, from the outside in, admires the aims and apparent successes of the language and wants to learn (when there is time...), it just strikes me as absolutely typical new language hype. I saw it with go and even js, yes js, with node's emergence, and python and for a while ruby... just part of the life cycle :)
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@RL_Dane @jbowen @aja there's certainly a human thing of getting productive in something and getting enthused by it.
Bash is one of these warty things that you kind of end up liking despite yourself I think :P
I quite like C despite myself and even C++... but sort of more of a C guy despite its endless and obvious flaws
Bash is one of these warty things that you kind of end up liking despite yourself I think :P
I quite like C despite myself and even C++... but sort of more of a C guy despite its endless and obvious flaws
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@RL_Dane @jbowen @aja yes it's awful, electron is a scourge. And I understand why people do it, but it doesn't make me like it any more.
As far as I'm concerned I'm only interested in kernel/systems development. I've worked at every level in the stack, from crappy internal .net software to web to middleware stuff to systems, to kernel and even chatting to hardware guys.
And kernel/systems is the one for me :)
As far as I'm concerned I'm only interested in kernel/systems development. I've worked at every level in the stack, from crappy internal .net software to web to middleware stuff to systems, to kernel and even chatting to hardware guys.
And kernel/systems is the one for me :)
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@RL_Dane @jbowen @aja apple do a lot for that I feel, pushing people towards native and making a LOT of tooling to do that and a pretty UI that isn't web-based.
Other big tech companies have gone all-in on using a massively legacy document layout engine for apps and it's just sigh. Plus CSS, a good idea but in actual use the worst thing to deal with ever invented.
Anyway happy down here in the engine room :)
Other big tech companies have gone all-in on using a massively legacy document layout engine for apps and it's just sigh. Plus CSS, a good idea but in actual use the worst thing to deal with ever invented.
Anyway happy down here in the engine room :)
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