Greg K-H
gregkh
Companies will have to update their kernel to a newer version over the lifespan of the device in order to stay in compliance.
As I heard recently in a meeting with one Android vendor, "Android updates consist of over 2000 programs updated to the latest version, what's so hard about adding 1 more to it?"
So if the requirement from Android to have a 6 year supported kernel version is now gone, maybe we don't have to do it upstream either? That will make so many people very happy.
Also, Apple has been doing this for a long time for their devices, why do people feel it is somehow impossible? :)
https://ec.europa.eu/info/law/better-regulation/have-your-say/initiatives/12797-Designing-mobile-phones-and-tablets-to-be-sustainable-ecodesign_en
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Γlex SΓ‘ez
alexsaezm@mastodon.social@gregkh I don't really get the Android part, not quite familiar with their release model. Can you elaborate?
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Tyler Saunders 
tylersaunders@fosstodon.org
I agree with the general idea here, but just wanted to comment on the "Apple is doing it why isn't Android"
Android is an order of magnitude more complex than iOS (# of devices)
Here's a public but incomplete list of known Android models:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Android_smartphones
And for iOs (also incomplete)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_iOS,_iPadOS,_tvOS,_and_watchOS_devices#iPhone
Now this is just mean to be illustrative of the difference in hardware configurations supported.
So the general sentiment of "Apple, why not Android" is insane.
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Greg K-H
gregkhSo should Google attempt to support kernel versions for many years all on their own? That's up to them but it's something I would never advise them to do as that's an unwise and thankless task.
The companies that should be doing this are the chip OEMs that provide the hacked-up SoC kernels to the vendors. They are the ones that actually got paid for that kernel and support from the vendor. But they know they too can't even attempt to do that as they refuse to do it today.
So the only real solution is to jump to a newer kernel version. That is something the SoC vendors, and Google can support and do today.
Again, it's just one more package to update, not anything magic or scary about the kernel here.
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Neal Gompa (γγΌγ«γ»γ΄γ³γ) 
Conan_Kudo@fosstodon.org
@tylersaunders @gregkh It's only insane because Android doesn't enforce an upstream-first policy for drivers as part of Android certification.
Regular Linux distributions are able to support a wide range of devices and form factors because it's all part of the upstream kernel, which drastically simplifies things. Android doesn't have that yet.
Maybe someday, who knows...
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Greg K-H
gregkhAs you well know, a SoC is a few orders of magnitude more complex than your normal server/desktop so the amount of drivers and kernel code to control it is almost double, and the code sharing from common IP blocks is much less than ideal. So trying to get all code upstream is a task that no SoC vendor seems willing to attempt until much later in the device cycle.
Yes, it would be cheaper and faster to do the work up front to get the code upstream, but SoC vendors have code to burn (actual quote from a QCOM manager to me) and no individual project wants to take the time-hit to save future products time on their upstream work (i.e. short term vs. long term incentives.)
The only real solution is if vendors put in their contracts "code must be upstream" before they buy the chips, that's what fixed it in the Enterprise server space decades ago. But right now, due to an almost monopoly in the SoC market, no one can afford to add that to contracts when making a new phone.
So you have it all here, technical complexity, short-term product deadlines, too much money to care about the problem, and monopolistic markets. Something for everyone to complain about and no single way to solve it.
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Neal Gompa (γγΌγ«γ»γ΄γ³γ)
Conan_Kudo@fosstodon.org
@gregkh @tylersaunders Yeah, you're right. And yes, I sadly *do* know about the SoC monopoly issue that is the underlying cause of all this. In theory, there are lots of ARM vendors. In practice, there's just one that everyone buys from.
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