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Vlastimil Babka
vbabka
Edited 18 days ago
kernel job posting
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The core kernel team at SUSE Labs (where I am as well) is looking for a Linux Kernel Security Expert! https://jobs.suse.com/us/en/job/71006364
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re: kernel job posting
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@vbabka I'd love to apply to those kind of jobs, except my experience with the Linux kernel is the following: I know it exists.
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Mathieu
mathieu@fosstodon.org
kernel job posting
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@vbabka "CVE categorization" man those days that's something else...
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Listens to Baroque while coding murder.exe 
newt@stereophonic.space
@captainepoch @vbabka kernel development isn't that hard, but it's a dead-end job. Still, you could study for a few months and get hired if you wanna.
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Vlastimil Babka
vbabka
@newt @captainepoch yep it's a dead end job in the sense that you won't want to change it to work on anything else ;)
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Listens to Baroque while coding murder.exe
newt@stereophonic.space
@vbabka @captainepoch hahaha you wish. I'm glad I left kernel development. Linux is definitely no fun in this regard.
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Listens to Baroque while coding murder.exe
newt@stereophonic.space
@captainepoch @vbabka this is certainly true, but the market is rather limited and a lot of people are willing to do this work for cheap (especially in China, since more hardware vendors are there). Also, Linux, Windows, and Darwin kernel development is vastly different with considerably different tooling, so much so that the experience barely translates outside of it just being C. And even then, Windows uses its very own C dialect, with exceptions and other cool stuff.
Long story short, kernel development isn't a hot thing these days and I doubt it will ever be. It's a nice hobby, but I'd rather not make a career out of it.
Long story short, kernel development isn't a hot thing these days and I doubt it will ever be. It's a nice hobby, but I'd rather not make a career out of it.
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@newt @vbabka Well... Maybe not Windows, because Microsoft is always doing its shit. But Linux, BSD and Darwin are pretty much Unix(-like), and mostly C, so... I'd consider working on Operating Systems someday, but I'm not sure that'd be possible.
Anyway, it was a dream when I was at uni and it keeps being one.
Anyway, it was a dream when I was at uni and it keeps being one.
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Listens to Baroque while coding murder.exe
newt@stereophonic.space
@captainepoch @vbabka jokes on you, Windows is probably more interesting to work on out of this list. Except for Darwin, not because it's fun but because I have zero experience with it. Unix isn't exactly a compliment.
If you want to try your luck, I suggest joining some BSD. They are always underhanded and more welcoming towards noobs. NetBSD or OpenBSD might be a good start. I literally mailed openbsd-misc@ once, asking for directions as a first-timer in bsd kernel development, and they were very kind to me.
If you want to try your luck, I suggest joining some BSD. They are always underhanded and more welcoming towards noobs. NetBSD or OpenBSD might be a good start. I literally mailed openbsd-misc@ once, asking for directions as a first-timer in bsd kernel development, and they were very kind to me.
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Listens to Baroque while coding murder.exe
newt@stereophonic.space
@captainepoch @vbabka i dunno, husky seems fine.
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Vlastimil Babka
vbabka
@captainepoch @newt it's different kind of difficult, IMHO. I try to avoid anything user facing, it's hard, hehe.
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@vbabka @newt I don't like it either, it's a job I landed 6 years ago due to a university's project and I stayed because it wasn't that bad at the beginning...
But it's easier.
I really think I'm not really capable of doing kernel work at this point, nor do I have the time to put into it... Also, most of the jobs related to OS work ask you to be almost a God at it, and I only know that stuff exists, and nothing more about it.
But it's easier.
I really think I'm not really capable of doing kernel work at this point, nor do I have the time to put into it... Also, most of the jobs related to OS work ask you to be almost a God at it, and I only know that stuff exists, and nothing more about it.
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Listens to Baroque while coding murder.exe
newt@stereophonic.space
@captainepoch @vbabka
>Also, most of the jobs related to OS work ask you to be almost a God at it, and I only know that stuff exists, and nothing more about it.
Fun fact. Most companies are total suck at writing those job descriptions. I see them more as best wishes rather than actual requirements. Seriously, if you're up to doing this, it's not that hard to land a kernel job.
>Also, most of the jobs related to OS work ask you to be almost a God at it, and I only know that stuff exists, and nothing more about it.
Fun fact. Most companies are total suck at writing those job descriptions. I see them more as best wishes rather than actual requirements. Seriously, if you're up to doing this, it's not that hard to land a kernel job.
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Listens to Baroque while coding murder.exe
newt@stereophonic.space
@captainepoch @vbabka of course you won't, by whining like this. Writing code is what you need.
Again, kernel development isn't that hard. Even a retard like me can do it!
Again, kernel development isn't that hard. Even a retard like me can do it!
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Vlastimil Babka
vbabka
@newt @captainepoch yeah agree the requirements in job postings are often more demanding than reality. Entry level jobs should be achievable for anyone motivated enough. I've also been hired without any prior commits to the kernel as a hobbyist, anyway...
Just curious, what exactly did you work on kernel wise?
Just curious, what exactly did you work on kernel wise?
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Listens to Baroque while coding murder.exe
newt@stereophonic.space
@vbabka @captainepoch my last kernel-related job had me implement a custom monitoring system that required some kernel modifications to export metrics from the networking stack. It was never upstreamed or even published.
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Vlastimil Babka
vbabka
@newt @captainepoch oh I see. Then I wrongly interpreted your earlier comment "I'm glad I left kernel development. Linux is definitely no fun in this regard." to be related to the upstream process (many people don't like aspect of it such as being e-mail based vs forges). But since those modifications were private, it could be only related to the codebase itself? Too complex compared to the BSD's?
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Listens to Baroque while coding murder.exe
newt@stereophonic.space
Edited 17 days ago
@vbabka @captainepoch BSD suffers from all the same problems, really. Linux and BSDs seem less of proper operating system kernels and more of a bunch of crudely bolted together hacks. The fact that there is no well-supported in-kernel debugger is just abysmally stupid. Yes, I know about KGDB. No, it's not good, getting it to work oftentimes is a challenge of its own. WinDbg is miles ahead.
Then there is the fact that Linux openly disregards any notion of API compatibility. Having your module work sometimes even within a small range of kernel versions is hard. Supporting at least two RHEL kernels often requires so many #ifdefs, it seems borderline comical. Check out OpenZFS code some time, they support kernels from 3.10 to this day and their compatibility layer is absurdly enormous just due to this.
(also it's funny that both Linus and Greg KH are openly hostile towards ZFS developers, lowkey threatening them with lawsuits, when this is one of the more stable and functional filesystems available on Linux)
Documentation is lacking, to say the least. This is what Rust people ran into when integrating their crab language into Linux.
And last I checked, these problems not only aren't being solved, they aren't even acknowledged as problems. It's an outright abhorrent farce of a development culture.
Then there is the fact that Linux openly disregards any notion of API compatibility. Having your module work sometimes even within a small range of kernel versions is hard. Supporting at least two RHEL kernels often requires so many #ifdefs, it seems borderline comical. Check out OpenZFS code some time, they support kernels from 3.10 to this day and their compatibility layer is absurdly enormous just due to this.
(also it's funny that both Linus and Greg KH are openly hostile towards ZFS developers, lowkey threatening them with lawsuits, when this is one of the more stable and functional filesystems available on Linux)
Documentation is lacking, to say the least. This is what Rust people ran into when integrating their crab language into Linux.
And last I checked, these problems not only aren't being solved, they aren't even acknowledged as problems. It's an outright abhorrent farce of a development culture.
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@newt @vbabka @captainepoch
"more of a bunch of crudely bolted together hacks"
That's open sores in general. Programmers work on what they want to work on and then some well-meaning stooge stitches it all together.
"more of a bunch of crudely bolted together hacks"
That's open sores in general. Programmers work on what they want to work on and then some well-meaning stooge stitches it all together.
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Listens to Baroque while coding murder.exe
newt@stereophonic.space
@amerika @vbabka @captainepoch Linux is and has for the most of its existence been a commercial project.
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Listens to Baroque while coding murder.exe
newt@stereophonic.space
@captainepoch @vbabka less procrastinating, more doing things!
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Listens to Baroque while coding murder.exe
newt@stereophonic.space
@captainepoch @vbabka do you metaprocrastinate?
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