Conversation

Jarkko Sakkinen

If I end up doing something at work with Rust in user space that is like actually needed by someone, these days I first write it in C and then rewrite it Rust.

It's just that with C you can touch anything, and thus it is extreme levels fast discover how systems do when you poke them.

In kernel things are obviously different as there is just one thing your tickling ;-)
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Kernel Rust is like a different language (for better) ;-) It does not have any of the above issues.
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@avlap2 hell no, it's stuff that i get paid for :-) it's a fucking nightmare to sometimes even compile with that. would not ever try to use it for anything serious that someone is paying for
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Jarkko Sakkinen

Edited 15 days ago
@avlap2 it's too broken for that but on leisure time broken is "interesting" :D C is one of the best things a person can experience during lifetime of all experiences known and yet to be discovered but it's a productivity choice here more than anything else ;-)
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@jarkko I'm a programmer newbie. Zig brings me further then C as Zig is easier for me. I didn't found many broken things tbh, maybe that's because I do fairly basic stuff. But with dvui I was also able to write some GUI.

Useful standard library, data structures, error handling, build system, crossplatform, memory checks. It will be even better for me with the new IO stuff coming up. Then it might replace Go for me.

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@avlap2 yeah so how i see big picture is that i don't think about the tool too much. using excel is as good as using C or Rust if it solves an actual problem.

and it is always good remind oneself that fancy code has zero effect on user experience. and user experience is really everything. so it's IMHO best to "just do something" never mind the too. that's sort of at least my philosophy overall.

even when developing a driver and low-level daemon, only end users define what is great and what is not that great. e.g. better error recovery, failure tolerance etc. map directly to the reporting capabilities on what can be reasonably represented to the user.

users neither base their choices based on how seasoned the developer (or company) is. over-analysing your "level" in any creative or further artistic work is a disease and it helps to recognize this fact.

in music there's of course like spotify shit tracks but there's also like super skilled music which sounds so fucking horrible that you wish you were dead (yngwie malmsteen for one but not mentioning any names here).
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@jarkko Fair point, but I don't agree with all of it.

Users don't care about error handling, but good error handling, will result in better software for users. Fewer bugs, no segfaults etc. I already rewrote one of my tools I wrote in C (as C n00b) in Zig and it's a better user experience, cause Zig helps me better with memory then C does, which means no segfaults anymore. Crossplatform compilation and binaries. That's a better user experience.

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@avlap2 i guess it is working out for you whatever you do. which is great obviously. i'm not debating because nobody is paying for debating at 11:30 PM :-) this is how i've experienced my past life on this topic overall, and it has nothing to do with some imaginary absolute set of correct answers.
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