Correlation vs. Causation

[Reminder: the support for programming the #LinuxKernel using #Rust aka #Rustlang is not used for anything at all yet within the #Linux #kernel – and most likely disabled in this user's kernel image]

@kernellogger such a sad thing to see.
Thanks for the clarification.

@Anachron

sad? kinda. In the end this and other fallacies are a flaw of humans and thus found in all of us; knowing about them can help avoiding them, but in the end nobody is perfect.

@kernellogger this quite funny in the context of your boost of @slp toot of Portal playback in a libkrun virtio-gpu, DRM native context using the asahi linux rust gpu driver.
Not the complaining user is using that. judging by the trouble building the asahi kernel using distro rustc packages caused I would be very surprised if any distro enables RUST at this point. Issue is just the non-synchronized released schedules in combination with using unstable rust features

@janne Are the distro rust compilers often too old? Or are there other issues?

@janne @slp

yeah, the non-synchronized released schedules make things hard already and the aspects of current RUST support and the unstable features will make things more complicated… Remains to be seen how this all works our over the next years, especially with the "no regressions rule" and the Linux kernel's approach to compiler support.

Maybe it will kill Linux 🙃 Just kidding, there will be fights, but in the end solutions will be found, as usual. 😬

@shenki I guess that depends on the distro. On Fedora and Arch the kernel is trailing behind and unstable rust features are in flux. The kernel uses a few and at least one usually needs updates.

@kernellogger @janne @slp The usage of unstable features means that distros that keep up with Rust upstream are also screwed over. The maintenance burden of Rust in the Linux kernel is extremely high and I don't really see an end in sight for that right now.

@kernellogger see @fasterthanlime!!! This is why I won't touch that rust stuff, it causes lock ups EVEN WHEN NOT ENABLED

@ljs @kernellogger must be that pesky rust garbage collector

@kernellogger
There is a strange reactionary subculture within the linux community which reacts with anger towards any innovation.

It's most obvious in the reaction to systemd - while I am sure there are real criticisms, people get enraged out of proportion. This seems like one of those examples.

@fasterthanlime @ljs @kernellogger

Nah, probably an issue with the jit compiler.

@Anachron @ljs @kernellogger (mine’s funny because it did use to have a GC, in the before times!!)

@kernellogger also, in more than a decade of using #Linux it hasn't locked up or crashed once.

@fasterthanlime @ljs @kernellogger

It seems like you are not aware of https://github.com/nbp/holyjit yet ;)

@Anachron @fasterthanlime @kernellogger holy moly

@faassen

Some people fear change (guess we all do sometimes), so it's natural that some people in the Linux community do so, too.

But I'm not really sure if that's the case here, maybe things started to go sideways and the user just blamed Rust support because the user is not aware how much other changes make it into each new kernel version… hard to tell

@kernellogger
I am just fascinated by the levels of anger, especially surrounding systemd, for many years. This reminded me of that, but this is funnier as Rust wasn't even a possible realistic cause of this person's troubles.

@kernellogger #WSL related?

@beadmaze it was not posted in a #WSL context, hence not that I'm aware of

@faassen

yeah, I also sometimes feel a bit fascinated by the levels of anger, but at the same time it often worries me...

@kernellogger @faassen I think it's because people feel there identity has somehow been attacked, that's usually where over the top responses originate from

@ljs @kernellogger I think you're on to something, though it baffles me ones identity can be attached to an init system, unless you built it.

Hm, I guess that's actually the clue I needed - they probably did hack a lot of init system bash scripts. And I can see how ones identity can be attached to a programming system.

@Tionisla @faassen @kernellogger it's just a human thing, people perceive something new as a threat and lash out. I'm sure we've all done it at times.

Of course that doesn't mean that we should just accept new things as good, rather they should be scrutinised to see if it's just hype or the thing is really valid.

However in the case of systemd and rust the case has been made very convincingly for both.

@Tionisla @faassen @kernellogger So much of computing is about the human factors anyway that I'm sure there's more cross-over than many would think...