Is there anything you would like to ask the #Linux Foundation's TAB (Technical Advisory Board)?

Then come to the "ask us anything" session with the current TAB at the @linuxplumbersconf 2024, which is currently scheduled for 9:00 on Friday, September 20[1].

And if you can't be there, just tell me your questions: I'll try to bring a few of them forward if I get a chance.

[1] https://lore.kernel.org/all/87zforv3zc.fsf@trenco.lwn.net/

#kernel #LinuxKernel #LinuxPlumbers #LinuxPlumbers2024

2/ Side note:

* the list of TAB members on on https://www.linuxfoundation.org/about/leadership is out of date afaics.

[EDIT: <s>* Where is the current landing page that lists what the TAB actually does? https://wiki.linuxfoundation.org/tab/start seems old, but might be it.</s>]

Current charter can be found here: https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/docs/tab/tab.git/tree/documents/charter.md

Meeting minutes: https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/docs/tab/tab.git/tree/minutes

@kernellogger Side-side note: Tab clear cola was amazing and they should bring it back

3/ and in case you wonder which developers self-nominate to run in this year's election for the #Linux Foundation's TAB (Technical Advisory Board), keep an eye on https://lore.kernel.org/tech-board-discuss/

Also note what Jakub wrote in his nomination:

"'I'd like to use this opportunity to encourage others to run for the TAB. If you have any interest in organizing the community -please run. Your candidate statement can be as simple as explaining which part of the kernel you work on. We need fresh perspectives.'"

@ljs

never heard of it, not sure if that was ever sold in Germany; but even if it was, I most likely would not be aware of it, because I'm boring and avoid drinks like that most of the time…

@kernellogger ok while we've disagreed before I've never been tempted to block you like I am right now.

For Christ's sake assure me you've HAD coke or club mate at least at some point?

cc: @lkundrak for moral support

@ljs @kernellogger ah, club mate, the disgusting thing you end up with when all the beer and discount energy drinks are gone from the hackerspace bar

it'd lock up whoever came up with an idea of adding sugar to mate in the tower under @oleksandr's desk

@lkundrak @kernellogger @oleksandr oh don't talk to me about mating and Sasha's 'tower' because now I'm really scared

Anyway Thorsten has had coke. He must have. He cannot not have. Because if he hasn't, this is the biggest kernel controversy yet

@ljs @lkundrak

😂

Coke: yeah; might even drink a glass/cup or two per year at a party or the cinema

Club mate: maybe two or three times.

I grew up on sugared drinks and decided that those where round about enough for one lifetime…

/me fears this answer will make matters worse 😬

@ljs @oleksandr @kernellogger right miditower okay for small kings too

@kernellogger @lkundrak nah gainz brother gainz, but sugar free ones right you're cool with those?

Tell me you caffeinate, because if you're decaff, my god

@lkundrak @oleksandr @kernellogger mid tower mid tier patch sets low tier height missing opposable thumbs low IQ 🍷

@ljs @lkundrak

from the "make matters worse department"😂:

I grew up an area where they drink a lot of tea and stuck to it; I drink maybe one coffee every two month.

https://www.unesco.de/en/east-frisian-tea-culture

There is something worse, but I'll tell you next week in person. 😬

@kernellogger @lkundrak I've got so many worse things to say to you in person

Not mean things, that sounds bad haha, I like you Thorsten (when you say stuff I agree with anyway) it's not mean things. Just disturbing things. Horrifying things

For instance what certain people's initials stand for cc: @vbabka

Anyway we have to caffeinate the living shit out of you at LPC

@kernellogger @lkundrak @vbabka

@kernellogger @ljs lorenzo is actually a british gentleman and always has his pint of tea at five, and biscuits

@lkundrak @kernellogger ok so I'm going to possibly upset somebody with this but.

I'm not a massive fan of tea.

Like don't get me wrong I'll drink it, just pretty much never by my own volition.

I prefer god-awful soul eating energy drinks

@kernellogger @linuxplumbersconf If Dan is available, definitely going to vote him. He is right type of personality for this type of position in my opinion, as far as my judgement goes.

@kernellogger @linuxplumbersconf The TAB charter mentions that the primary purpose of the TAB is to "advise the LF Board on matters related to supporting the technical agenda of the LF".

It also mentions a twice-yearly report to the board. Are these reports public? I couldn't find them, just the meeting notes.

TAB members are elected by the community, but do they represent the (edit: interests of the) community? AFAICT the answer is "no" -- at least formally. I think some clarity would be nice

@vegard @linuxplumbersconf

To reply properly, first let me ask two questions:

* where is the TAB charter? This one? https://wiki.linuxfoundation.org/tab/start (last modified in 2016)

* where did you even find recent meeting notes?

@kernellogger @linuxplumbersconf Yes, that's the charter I looked at. Notes were here: https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/docs/tab/tab.git/ (under minutes/)

@vegard @linuxplumbersconf

many thx; look, there is a charter in that tree, too:

https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/docs/tab/tab.git/tree/documents/charter.md

@kernellogger @linuxplumbersconf To be more clear: the TAB charter seems to say the TAB exists to support the technical agenda of the LF, while the call for candidates email says that "[the] TAB exists to provide advice from the kernel community to the Linux Foundation". It's clear that the TAB is a liaison between the LF and the kernel community, but these wordings are kind of opposites to me in terms of who you are ultimately serving: LF or the community? How are conflicts of interest handled?

@vegard @linuxplumbersconf

Good point; wrote it down to not forget about it, albeit I wonder if the wording in the call for candidates was just sloppy; but in the end the question "who you are ultimately serving: LF or the community? How are conflicts of interest handled?" is a good one even without it.

@vegard @linuxplumbersconf

the thing I have been wondering:

The TAB charter seems to say the TAB exists to support the "technical agenda of the LF".

But what exactly is the "technical agenda of the LF" these days where https://www.linuxfoundation.org/about does not even mention the kernel directly or indirectly.

Which are also the days where the LF hosts Hunderts of projects – among them Zephyr, that develops a kernels that is kinda competing with Linux. How are conflicts of interest handled there?

@vegard @kernellogger @linuxplumbersconf I was curious about the CVE part in the election announcement:
"Over the last year, the TAB has overseen the organization of the
Linux Plumbers Conference, advised on the setup of the kernel CVE numbering
authority, ... "
So I checked the minutes and found only in https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/docs/tab/tab.git/tree/minutes/2024/0110.md the following:
"Discussed potential changes for how Kernel CVEs are managed"

that's... underwhelming :(

@vegard @kernellogger @linuxplumbersconf The role of the TAB has shifted over the years, but its purpose has *always* been to serve the community. It was originally created, all of those years ago, to try to better align OSDL with how the community worked.

The best thing the current TAB does, IMO, is to serve as a place for maintainers with a certain amount of community influence to discuss and head off problems before they explode.

@kernellogger @linuxplumbersconf It would be nice to hear from possible candidates how they plan to address Rust, and how Linux community is going to address AI (not addressing is also one way to address it).

The Rust question could be further split into "what about GCC-Rust" and "what about defconfigs" parts.

Maybe LF could setup poll for candidates to answer these concerns? That could also spin more interest on voting.

@jarkko @linuxplumbersconf

thx for the feedback, wrote that down.

reg. more interest on voting: if you ask me, I'd list other things that are more important; a better understanding of what the TAB actually does / helped realize in say the past two years for example.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qc7HmhrgTuQ

@kernellogger @linuxplumbersconf I've tried to shout these questions to all possible cat fights I've seen concerning Rust and Linux kernel because I really should know the answers as a maintainer. Unfortunately they gather almost zero interest.

However, not having even rudimentary guidelines documented how to address these questions make Rust patch reviews more complicated than they should be, add friction in the community and generally make everyone feel like shit of themselves ;-)