Krzysztof Kozlowski
Posts
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320#standwithukraine 🇵🇱 🇪🇺 🇺🇦 🇨🇭
IRC: krzk
Kernel work related account. Other accounts of mine: @krzk@mastodon.social
GitHub: https://github.com/krzk/
Traveling Instagram / Wanderquak: https://www.instagram.com/wanderquak/
Home brewery: https://brewalot.ch
Our gardening (and worm farm!): https://growalot.ch
Krzysztof Kozlowski
krzk
@uecker @kernellogger @klausman There are no barriers to contribute, no payments needed, except one's time. Plenty of guides, plenty of resources, one just have to devote their time.
The entire and only point is here that simple: no one wanted to pay to maintain these drivers and no one wanted to devote enough of their own time to do that (except of course of netdev maintainers who have enough on their plate).
The entire and only point is here that simple: no one wanted to pay to maintain these drivers and no one wanted to devote enough of their own time to do that (except of course of netdev maintainers who have enough on their plate).
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@kernellogger @klausman @uecker And the license governing Linux kernel kind of emphasizes this:
“This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.”
Which also means without warranty of support. We only HOPE it will be useful.
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@uecker @kernellogger @klausman Each of these people having "genuine" needs of removed drivers could step up and help. Still can, like it happened with NFC which I left and was about to be removed, if I did not poke David. If these users do not step up, they have no rights to complain, because one cannot expect someone else doing work for free.
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Krzysztof Kozlowski
krzk
@uecker @kernellogger @klausman Your post makes impression that paying main contributor somehow causes that contributor to do something else, than would be good for community? That's not the case.
Every contributor pulls the project where they want. And they can. Big corpo usually does not stop them. Contributors who are paid as part of their job, pull towards whatever they need to because for example manager told them.
Contributors who are hobbyists, with whom I deal a lot, pull to solve their hobbyist needs. No problem here...
No one (or not enough) was pulling ISDN or other drivers, so these are going away. And this is what entire post is about.
Somehow people expect someone will do the work for free (this pulling of the project) for them. Many people do work for free, because of their choice/needs, but EXPECTING someone to work for free is unacceptable.
Every contributor pulls the project where they want. And they can. Big corpo usually does not stop them. Contributors who are paid as part of their job, pull towards whatever they need to because for example manager told them.
Contributors who are hobbyists, with whom I deal a lot, pull to solve their hobbyist needs. No problem here...
No one (or not enough) was pulling ISDN or other drivers, so these are going away. And this is what entire post is about.
Somehow people expect someone will do the work for free (this pulling of the project) for them. Many people do work for free, because of their choice/needs, but EXPECTING someone to work for free is unacceptable.
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@klausman @kernellogger There is no free lunch, so people who have "genuine need" of particular drivers need to pay with their testing of new kernel releases (LKML does not matter here - no one needs to read it). This applies to individual users or companies using some very old LTS. If they ever tested only their old LTS (imagine v4.4 with stunning 300 stable releases for 6 years of official support!), never moved their kernel for their products to any newer LTS, not even imagining testing newer standard release, what do they expect?
That some maintainers will do the work for them for free?
Free Software is free as in freedom of usage, not free of the effort. I think many forgot that and assume Linux comes for them for free as in free beer, thus they have no obligations and can be just consumers of it.
That some maintainers will do the work for them for free?
Free Software is free as in freedom of usage, not free of the effort. I think many forgot that and assume Linux comes for them for free as in free beer, thus they have no obligations and can be just consumers of it.
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Krzysztof Kozlowski
repeated
repeated
Drodzy Uczestnicy!
Sesja Linuksowa już trwa!
Jeżeli nie możecie pojawić się na miejscu, zapraszamy na streama z konferencji: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeS7QtMYXyw
Miłej zabawy!
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Krzysztof Kozlowski
krzk
In two weeks, I hope to tell a few weird things how Linux kernel is being developed during my speech "Peculiarities of Linux Kernel Development" at the "Sesja Linuksowa" conference in Wrocław, Poland. That will be my first speech in my home country. :)
Detailed schedule is on https://sesja.linuksowa.pl/
If you around, come say hi, I will stay at the conference through most of the Saturday.
P.S. The talk will be in English.
Detailed schedule is on https://sesja.linuksowa.pl/
If you around, come say hi, I will stay at the conference through most of the Saturday.
P.S. The talk will be in English.
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Krzysztof Kozlowski
krzk
My speech proposals for OSS India 16-17 June were accepted (yay!) but the conference organizers weirdly ask to have slides ready TWO months before:
"Slide Submission Deadline: Monday, 15 April"
https://events.linuxfoundation.org/open-source-summit-india/program/speaker-guide/#welcome
Yeah, right. Dream on. I can send you the title slide on 15th of April.
"Slide Submission Deadline: Monday, 15 April"
https://events.linuxfoundation.org/open-source-summit-india/program/speaker-guide/#welcome
Yeah, right. Dream on. I can send you the title slide on 15th of April.
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Krzysztof Kozlowski
krzk
@monsieuricon I saw you mentioning git-bugs earlier and I see links above, but I am still not sure how could I use it. Do you have anywhere short description what this could be for? Replace Bugzilla?
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@gregkh Not that odd... I imagine random dudes talking:
- I used microslop to find bug in Linux kernel and I will have CVE/security vulnerability credits for my CV!
- oh, amazing, was it difficult?
- I just found them easily in usbip, it looks like easy pick.
- I will do the same!
I, for example, noticed that when Google Summer of Code starts, e.g. application process, there is increased amount of contributions doing the same as GSoC applicants but not being part of GSoC. It's like someone found GSoC page with "easy picks" and then hops on the same bus.
Maybe usbip is the same here.
- I used microslop to find bug in Linux kernel and I will have CVE/security vulnerability credits for my CV!
- oh, amazing, was it difficult?
- I just found them easily in usbip, it looks like easy pick.
- I will do the same!
I, for example, noticed that when Google Summer of Code starts, e.g. application process, there is increased amount of contributions doing the same as GSoC applicants but not being part of GSoC. It's like someone found GSoC page with "easy picks" and then hops on the same bus.
Maybe usbip is the same here.
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Krzysztof Kozlowski
krzkI thought linux.dev was more so for enthuasists and kernel.org for maintainers?
@ljs @axboe @monsieuricon Ah, true, maintainer/reviewer OR “ongoing history with Linux kernel development”: https://korg.docs.kernel.org/linuxdev.html
kernel.org is for maintainers handling code, but there are many people listed in MAINTAINERS which do not handle the code but have M: status, mostly for individual drivers.
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@ljs @axboe @monsieuricon But regardless, Josh Law is not a maintainer and should not be such for longer time, considering amount of lies he produced and kept insisting on, even when proven these were lies.
@linux.dev is for maintainers, right? So that's the answer.
To submit patches via SMTP and receive email to a sane IMAP client he can as well use Gmail account - works well and is free. Many people do it, so that's also not a reason to get @linux.dev.
He was told to slow down and learn, but I only see actions still in pursue of some maintainership or other involvement beyond learning. Asking for @linux.dev also feels like asking to legitimize identity or at least get some boost in reputation.
You boost reputation by not sending microslop, not by getting @linux.dev.
@linux.dev is for maintainers, right? So that's the answer.
To submit patches via SMTP and receive email to a sane IMAP client he can as well use Gmail account - works well and is free. Many people do it, so that's also not a reason to get @linux.dev.
He was told to slow down and learn, but I only see actions still in pursue of some maintainership or other involvement beyond learning. Asking for @linux.dev also feels like asking to legitimize identity or at least get some boost in reputation.
You boost reputation by not sending microslop, not by getting @linux.dev.
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Krzysztof Kozlowski
krzk
@ljs @axboe @monsieuricon There were some more interactions with few more people off-list. Let me forward them.
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Krzysztof Kozlowski
krzk
@airlied @corbet @ljs @monsieuricon Jia Tan also was presenting good faith at some point. Or could come later and say "wait, no, I am a real person, not paid by foo-bar intelligence".
Once trust is lost that person is real, it is difficult to judge whether further statements show good faith or are just trying to salvage whatever operation was there.
And I do understand that this is lose-lose situation, if we stop trusting in general just because one used AI for entire patch and then kept lying about it.
Once trust is lost that person is real, it is difficult to judge whether further statements show good faith or are just trying to salvage whatever operation was there.
And I do understand that this is lose-lose situation, if we stop trusting in general just because one used AI for entire patch and then kept lying about it.
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