@ljs You guys understand little to nothing. Navalny was just another Muscovian infected with imperialism, not better than those who killed him. The only thing he deserves near his photo is a sandwich. He called Crimea "a sandwich" when he was asked if he'd return it to Ukraine. "Is Crimea a sandwich with sausage to return it back and forth?" was his answer. Just another colonialist moron.
@ljs The thing is that he was not a viable opposition. The only thing he cared about was revealing corruption somewhat. And, as you now, "being an opposition" and "revealing corruption" are not the same things. By reveling corruption a person may actually help a country to be more effective. In case of Muscovy, effectiveness is measured in ability to conduct an imperial war, among other things.
@ljs The last viable opposition was Němcov, but he was killed long time ago, and I do not see people in the so-called "collective West" crying after him. Nowadays, there's no viable opposition in Muscovy. If you want to find one, look for people who talk about how so-called "small nations" within the so-called "federation" are oppressed and what to do about this oppression. Let me know once you find them. They exist, but they do not represent one single body, and often they are emigrants. It will be a long road to have them united and to let them make any visible change.
@ljs I don't think my anger blinds me since this shit is ongoing for long enough to exhale and think calmly; mind you, we in fact are talking about a period that lasts for at least 350 years. I also think that allies can be stupid in some things, it's not "all or nothing". You guys are also a victim of multi-year propaganda, and it's deeper in your minds than you may realise. Of course, this doesn't prevent me from admiring what UK did and is doing, and hopefully will do for my country. But the thing is that I really don't care about one bitch killing another bitch when both bitches do not want me to exist in the first place. Hence I think you should not care as well, and you should look for good lads elsewhere.
@ljs That's good and all stuff, but we were talking about looking for good lads in Muscovy. Well, check this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Nations_of_Post-Russia_Forum Have you seen tons of support for this from EU, UK, USA? Except for residence permits.
@ljs For us it was a choice between Clinton killing our state right now with sanctions, or Muscovy killing us with real weapon but much later. Guess what.
@pavel @oleksandr @ljs well it's not like infrastructure for nuclear defense could be built overnight
@ljs @oleksandr @pavel oh no, i'm fan of nukes and stuff that gets delivered with a tube lit on one end in general
@ljs @oleksandr @pavel yeah and the country went on to stash weapons grade idiocy
@ljs @oleksandr @pavel > they won't destroy the world as the stuff they stole is _in the world_
bro you're just too western
@pavel @oleksandr @ljs As an aside, Russia is not as incompetent as some people want to believe. They're not very good at batch production (because of missing/insufficient quality control), but their nuclear arsenal is essentially custom production. I don't have enough data to estimate how good they are at maintaining this arsenal, but they have some high-profile engineers. It would probably take them only a couple of weeks to fire at least a dozen intercontinental missiles reliably.
@pavel @oleksandr @ljs Re 30 minutes: It only means Russians don't believe it's urgent right now. But it would not take them too long to prepare if they decide it's necessary.
Re components: There are still universities in Russia, and academia has some amounts of everything, presumably in decent condition. That's what the military would take (and that's why my estimate of working missiles is so low).
@ljs @oleksandr @pavel All I'm saying is that Russians should not be underestimated. They are capable of doing very difficult things; they just can't do them at scale.
@ljs @oleksandr @pavel All right, first the terminology. Where I wrote “Russians” in this thread, it referred to the current rulers of Kremlin.
Re Ukrainian war: Russian armed forces have greatly improved in almost all aspects. It's not the same army as two years ago.
Re corruption: First, power is even more important than money. Second, Kremlin rulers actually use corruption to keep their power. They are apparently quite good at that.
Re argument: I'm sorry. I was not trying to argue.
@ljs @oleksandr @pavel Agreed: No point to continue this thread. I think it would take us ages to understand each other this way. One evening in a local pub would be more efficient use of time, and I have some reasons to believe our views are not so far apart as they look from this online discussion.
@ptesarik @ljs @oleksandr @pavel
Oh, this thread reminds me a quote:
"Russia is never as strong as it seems but it's also never as weak as it seems"
@ljs while I do agree with you, I also agree with oleksandr@natalenko.name that Němcov was the more serious and fierce opposition. IMO that's also why Putin eliminated him first.
@oleksandr @djasa @ptesarik @pavel @ljs i've learned to configure sendmail on amphetamines once
@ljs @oleksandr @djasa @ptesarik @pavel wait, crack not an amphetamine? *off to wikipedia* the street names here map poorly to the english nomenclature :(